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Ben Ford :grinchsmile:

Hi everyone! I just wanted to give you a heads up that Perforce has forcibly seized control of the Community Slack. They've banned me and removed the Community team and all moderators. This means that there is currently no spam or harassment moderation. It means that the community no longer has the ability to limit monetization. And it means that Perforce has direct access to your account info and no longer needs to go through the Community team when they need sales and marketing leads.

Personally, I’ve requested my information removed and you can do the same at preferences.perforce.com/

Now, a bit of personal speculation here. Last time I talked to Perforce Legal a few weeks ago, they were excited by our “community owned community space” model. The fact that the company has now taken this subversive and hostile action makes me think that they are about to announce or do something incredibly shitty and want to have iron control over the messaging.

This ought to be interesting.

preferences.perforce.comPrivacy Request Center | DataGrail

We intend to keep this community alive and thriving, no matter what comes next from Perforce. If you'd like to follow me and others to the new community slack, just follow the invite link on the upper right corner of voxpupuli.org.

Vox PupuliVox PupuliVox Pupuli is a collective of Puppet module, tooling and documentation maintainers working together for the greater good.

@binford2k Is keeping using Slack a great idea given the circumstances? Wouldn't it be better to use a platform that you control?

@Aphrodite @loke @binford2k my last company used Mattermost and honestly was pretty decent.

@Aphrodite @loke @binford2k Slack isn't banned on most people's work computers (it might actually be installed) - and people have restrictions on installing other applications like discord (sometimes banned outright), or don't have permissions to install mattermost.

@loke @binford2k yeah, I was a bit surprised by that plan...

@loke @binford2k they’re going for the “fool me twice”.

@binford2k under the circumstances going back to another slack workspace sure seems like a bad idea! :|

@binford2k Sorry to nudge out of the blue, but any updates on this? I haven't used p4 for quite some time, but I moved into the 3D art and animation space, and P4 is used decently heavily.

It's hard to stay abreast of the whole f—ing industry's slide into evil, frankly.

@sekka and if you're interested in following along or reading more of the story, I've written quite a bit at overlookinfratech.com/blog/

Overlook InfraTechBlog
More from Overlook InfraTech

@binford2k I am—thank you! I built Palm's WebOS backend infrastructure on a combination of puppet and my own agent/queuing system long, long ago, and while Puppet moved away from what I considered 'ideal', I'm interested to see if a fork would take it a better direction.

@sekka excellent! You're totally welcome to participate if you're interested.

@sekka and tangent I glanced at your profile and homepage -- Derby in SF? Rad. My partner retired from derby over pandemic. They guest skated practices in Oakland once or twice -- out in a warehouse by Merritt lake if I recall.

@binford2k Ah yes! Well, I'm on a bit of a derby hiatus due to work, but it's my jam, so to speak. ;> That sounds like you're talking about the BAD warehouse. BAD is good people!

@binford2k @lkanies how does someone "seize control" of a slack organisation?

@thisismissem @binford2k I think in this case it probably means “removed other admins”. They probably always had admins on the slack, and now they’re the only ones.

@lkanies @thisismissem They convinced Slack to do it. The community team was me as primary owner, 4 community owners, and about 8 admins with moderation privileges, both community and employees. I've been banned and everyone else has been removed from their roles.

@lkanies @thisismissem until today, nobody else at the company had "owner" privileges on the slack -- and I was only owner out of convenience.

@binford2k cripes. I hope you're ok, this must be shit

@binford2k @thisismissem well that’s fun. Seems pretty crazy that slack would go along with it.

@lkanies @thisismissem I'm shocked, actually.

Personally, it's pretty wild too. I've never been banned from a community and the Puppet community has only ever banned one real person before today.

@binford2k @thisismissem yeah, sounds like a massive and crazy shift. I’m sorry. I wish it were not happening, or that there were something I could do to help.

@lkanies @binford2k that sounds like a hostile takeover facilitated by Slack, it'd be worth reading their terms of service as well as privacy policy, because it sounds very risky to trust & safety if a slack organisation can suddenly be reassigned owners at Slack's whims — entirely ripe for social engineering.

They might argue that "Puppet Community" infringed on Puppet's trademarks, but even then, the response isn't simply to hand over control, but rather force a name change.

@binford2k @lkanies @thisismissem Your continued use of Slack indicates that you are fine with it though?

@lkanies @binford2k @thisismissem there was a reason that i wanted Voxpupuli to be as independent from Puppet(labs) as possible…

back then, the reason was "Oracle", but i think today we can find many more examples.

@binford2k @lkanies @thisismissem was it a free slack community or did Perforce pay the slack bills?

@binford2k @lkanies @thisismissem

This sucks sorry to hear it.

Too Soon to ask who the real puppets are now? (Sorry)

Seriously though there does seem to be some sort of ironic poetry to taking control of a puppet oriented account.

@binford2k sounds like it’s time to switch to discord, like god intended

@lkanies @binford2k from one service controlled by a single company to another? It's not hard to run your own service and there is no excuse for an open source centred community to not do that.

@loke @binford2k I don’t have a horse in this race because I am completely uninvolved now.

But there are lots of reasons not to run one on your own. And lots of benefits of being on one people are already using. Different groups will decide based on their own needs and resources.

@loke @lkanies I see your point, but we've got limited time and resources. There's a reasonable chance that a community member might step up to run a matrix server instead, but we'll see.

@binford2k has something happened behind the scenes in tech that I don't know about? Because everybody seems to be acting proper weird lately.

@ali1234 It didn't run out, it was stolen by the billionaire class @SecondeJ @binford2k