Recent searches
Search options
This was an all-timer. A perfect rebuttal of Effective Altruism and Roko’s basilisk
@eARCwelder i understand the connection to roko's basilisk, and i agree with your assessment there, but what is the connection to effective altruism?
i only just now looked it up on wikipedia; the pitch seems harmless enough, but it seems the people involved in it twisted it into something else. i found this paragraph which is perhaps the connection you allude to?
![Timnit Gebru claimed that effective altruism has acted to overrule any other concerns regarding AI ethics (e.g. deepfake porn, algorithmic bias), in the name of either preventing or controlling artificial general intelligence.[127] She and Émile P. Torres further assert that the movement belongs to a network of interconnected movements they've termed TESCREAL, which they contend serves as intellectual justification for wealthy donors to shape humanity's future.[128]](https://cdn.masto.host/mastodongamedevplace/media_attachments/files/114/201/443/082/625/508/original/909d631ec01bd5dc.png "Timnit Gebru claimed that effective altruism has acted to overrule any other concerns regarding AI ethics (e.g. deepfake porn, algorithmic bias), in the name of either preventing or controlling artificial general intelligence.[127] She and Émile P. Torres further assert that the movement belongs to a network of interconnected movements they've termed TESCREAL, which they contend serves as intellectual justification for wealthy donors to shape humanity's future.[128]")
@lritter @eARCwelder I agree with your question and assessment; EA has/had some subfactions that are weird but overall remains a sensible and good movement IMHO
@flancian @lritter @eARCwelder No. I can't believe there are folks on the fedi actually saying that. 
@dalias @flancian @lritter @eARCwelder yeah, imagine not judging a group based on hot takes of their extremist fringe.
@michiel @flancian @lritter @eARCwelder Um, no, don't try to appropriate the language of social justice as an implement of fascism.
"A group" in the sense of people who have joined a movement/cult with fascist ideology is not the same thing as "a group" of people defined by the circumstances of their birth, the culture they grew up in, etc.
Effective Altruism is and always has been a technofascist futurist eugenicist cult. There is nothing altrusitic about any of it.
@dalias @michiel @flancian @eARCwelder always has been? got receipts?
@lritter @michiel @flancian @eARCwelder I'm not your encyclopedia. I'm not going to respond to demands to prove well-known fascists are fascists. I'm going to report the folks who keep trying to legitimize them here.
@dalias @michiel @flancian @eARCwelder ok. totally understand. i'm just a curious newb. i don't care about EA at all.
@lritter @dalias @michiel @eARCwelder I've read the wikipedia article on EA, I don't think it discredits the movement at all despite what fringe people within the movement might have believed, or believe. It needs to be OK not to cancel a huge human group because of beliefs of say a 5% (to make up a number, choose one?) subset.
Also I hope you're not proposing reporting this conversation as I think it's been very respectful? But happy to discuss if you think any part was out of line!
@flancian @lritter @michiel @eARCwelder We have a "no fascism" rule and promoting fascism "respectfully" does not bypass the rule.
The Wikipedia article is not the authority on whether EA is "discredited". You can do your own research into *who the people behind it are* and *what else they believe/promote/do*. I'm not talking about rando EA adherents you might meet. I'm talking about founders, organizers, follow the money, etc.
@dalias @lritter @michiel @eARCwelder I know the work of Peter Singer, William MacAskill and Toby Ord reasonably well and I can vouch for at least the first two, in particular Peter Singer. I consider them all founders (Peter Singer's thought of course predates EA by long) and there's essentially zero chance they are fascists.
So I understand you seem frustrated with EA but these are strong claims with no backing I'm aware of. If not Wikipedia, what sources should I search/read?
@flancian @lritter @michiel @eARCwelder The TESCREAL paper. Also, at least William MacAskill is intimately associated with crypto & AI scam crowds. "Zero chance they are fascists" sounds like you aren't well-grounded in what fascism is...
@lritter @dalias @michiel @flancian @eARCwelder recommend following @davidgerard who has often written about fascist-adjacent online groups such as rationalists/EA if you're interested in how this plays out in the large
@hipsterelectron @lritter @dalias @michiel @eARCwelder @davidgerard I'm interested, thanks for the recommendation!
@lritter I think you genuinely mean well so I'm sharing some links
So EA came from the same forum LessWrong that the Effective Altruism movement came out of
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/LessWrong
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Neoreactionary_movement
@bailey_writes ah ok. so it is an AI cult's astroturfed "movement" to shift the overton window. did i nail it?
@lritter yeah, something like that! I struggled to find a succinct source because it seems like in Wikipedia and things they've been smart about where they are vague about their history. There are definitely some good people and ideas like earning to donate and things but also astroturfing and a cultish community covering up sexual abuse and encouraging suicide and shaming people for working on useful relevant things for today's world instead of theoretical problems of the future
@dalias @michiel @lritter @eARCwelder sorry but this is just not true -- I know many people in the movement and I trust their intentions fully. I think statistically speaking, at the very least, most people who participated in mainstream EA activities (like thinking about causes, donating to them, etc.) are as far from 'racist eugenicists' or fascists as I could imagine -- and I say this as an anarchist and an anti-fascist.
@flancian @dalias @michiel @eARCwelder i'm not in any movement. can only recommend!