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If you think some other candidate would do better than Biden, fine, OK, I’m listening. You have a plan for the replacement and the legal fallout, right? Right?
AOC: “I have stood up in rooms with all of these people and I have said, ‘Game out your actual plan for me.’ What are the risks of this going to the Supreme Court? And no one had an answer for me.… I’m talking about the lawyers. I’m talking about the legislators.”
If there’s a last-minute nominee switcheroo — and to a lesser extent even if the nominee is Biden — the pro-democracy forces need to be paying 100x more attention to the legal shitshow the right-wing establishment is going to whip up around this election, adjudicated by a partisan and completely compromised Supreme Court.
•That• is the fight ahead. I sure hope to hell somebody is laying real plans for it.
Grateful to AOC for raising this alarm. I hope others will too.
To quote Michael Chabon, “Never worry about what you're escaping from. Worry about what you're escaping to.”
@inthehands@hachyderm.io
Frying pan or fire, neh?
@inthehands I'm not convinced Biden has to drop out (though I'm also not convinced he has to stay in no matter what). But if he does step down, I don't see any realistic replacement other than Harris, his VP. I'd be OK with her stepping in if need be, but as AOC points out, a number of the influential people who want Biden out want her out too, and that's not going to lead to anything good.
@inthehands Not to be a bitter mom, but you know a disproportionate number of those tireless lawyers are women who would dutifully do the followup, literally in this case, to appease the kids.
We'd all do a little better if we contemplated how much work it'll be and for whom when we raise an argument, to whom, and how. It's likely there's a much more expedient *and* effective way to address given issues.
Kudos to AOC for getting out there. We need to see more of the team.
@inthehands Not my hill to defend, but if you think Harris can do better you don't need a plan, you just need leadership.
The problem is: "If you think that there is consensus among the people who want Joe Biden to leave ... that they will support Vice President Harris, you would be mistaken"
In fact Biden could resign early, make Harris POTUS, and effectively guarantee her the nomination. He probably won't even endorse her though. Pelosi, Jeffries and Schumer probably won't either. Weird, eh?
If Biden resigns early, the GOP wouldn't confirm anyone Harris nominates for her replacement as VP.
Harris is the only rational choice. Not picking her would be an insult to the critical Black woman Democratic voting bloc. It's also been said that only Harris would have access to the money already raised by the Biden/Harris campaign.
The idea that big Democratic donors want Biden and Harris out because they're too progressive is absurd.
> the GOP wouldn't confirm
Probably not. In which case the question becomes "how can Harris take advantage of that? And if current leadership aren't smart enough or committed enough to help with that, then *that* has to change at some point too. Why not now?
> Harris is the only rational choice
Yes. I'd say "plausible" rather than rational, but yes.
> because they're too progressive
Yeah, that's not it. The problem is Biden not being up to the job at all, any more.
Part of the problem is that “How could the GOP take advantage of no VP” could include, uh, "arranging” for the current Speaker of the House to become President.
"Yeah, that's not it. The problem is Biden not being up to the job at all, any more.”
Right, that's what I'm saying. I'm seeing people talking as if Biden is being brought down by billionaires because he’s some kind of Che Guevara.
If billionaire Democrats want to, like, block a wealth tax, they don't need to "depose" him. They just need to fund House Republicans and fund a Senate Democrat to be a new Manchin/Sinema.
> I'm seeing people talking as if Biden is being brought down by billionaires because he’s some kind of Che Guevara.
Ah yeah, I agree that's nonsensical.
You will never see me say anything remotely like that 
Though I suppose there are some who would love to get rid of Lina Khan.
Adam Serwer followed the logic to its conclusion: you can't say that Biden is able to run the world's most complex governance, but not a campaign. If not that latter, not the former, either.
The way out is for him to resign, which has a perfectly legal path to Harris, and only Harris.
People not talking about that are hoping to pick a President, preferably themselves.
Only 'resign' calls have logical consistency and are free of self-interest.
@inthehands Christ the US is fucked
@inthehands There might be legal fallout that prevents the $90-ish million that Biden last reported his campaign hand on hand from being transferred to the new nominee (even Harris). I know of no law that requires the Democrats to nominate any particular candidate at this time and I don't know what she's on about. I do agree that he needs to make the call very, very soon. Like in the next 48-72 hours.
@MisterMoo @inthehands He already did last time the media breathlessly speculated that he was going to quit and he just did it again this afternoon.
The media won’t take “no” for an answer.
@MisuseCase @inthehands Neither will I, until the nomination is official.
@MisterMoo @inthehands If he doesn’t run, GOP lawyers will fight putting a replacement on the ballot in various states due to various state laws about who can be put on a ballot. Democrats may lose electoral votes as a result. Also, if he doesn’t run, the GOPwill then push for his immediate resignation and replacement.
This is easily the best argument against Biden withdrawing that I've seen.
To be clear, I'm narrowly in favor provided everyone in the room is like, "WE'RE GOING WITH HARRIS, RIGHT?!? RIGHT!!!"
Any other fantasy "pull a guy out of the stands and put him in the game" situations have to be off the table.
@inthehands
Damned if we do, damned if we don’t. I hate this timeline.
@inthehands the Tx ag is already got it in the works to sue to protect “democrats” rights…..so sickening.
@inthehands According to election lawyers, that lawsuit would be thrown out pretty quickly.
@botahamec @inthehands According to constitutional lawyers, Trump's lawsuit arguing for absolute immunity for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election should have been thrown out quickly. But we saw what the lawless, corrupt Court did in that case. I have zero confidence the same Court would do the right thing here.
@TerpieCat @inthehands Sure, let's say the Supreme Court blatantly ignores the law and puts Joe Biden back on the ticket. That's the same situation we're in right now.
@botahamec @inthehands And what happens if they wait until after the election to make that ruling? Too late to put Biden back on the ticket so they declare Trump the winner.
@TerpieCat @inthehands As I said to someone else, I think sending the election to the opposite party would *actually* result in a drone strike on the Supreme Court. It didn't work in 2020.
That argument could never work *after* the general election, because the people already made their choice. The whole idea of the lawsuit would be that Democrats chose someone different than who the official vote count was given to.
@inthehands
I think AOC is spot on. The Democrats are creating a chaos that will lose us the election. Party unity has a way better chance of winning the election than the shit show being acted out. I called my representatives this morning to tell them to get your act together, because right now your helping the Trump/Vance cause
Legally, there’s no valid challenge to changing the nominee in any state right now because there is no nominee yet.
But if there isn’t an actual plan for what to do if Biden is forced out that’s an enormous god damn problem and not at all surprising given how dog water the Democrats are in general.
Also when does she turn 35?
@inthehands
Democratic delegates are not bound to their original pick as the RNC delegates are. I like AOC, but she could use some schooling on the process... IMHO,)
@inthehands Didn't like the Heritage Foundation or somebody *publish* a *plan* for how they will legally challenge a potential replacement's position on the ballot in basically every state?
It's absolutely fuckin' WILD that the Democrats calling for Biden to resign don't seem to even have a wisp of a plan to deal with *that* election-losing obstacle ahead of them that has a goddamn sign and spotlight pointing it out.
@inthehands So instead we admit defeat before the start of a race?
Just roll over and let Joe lose because of “rules” or fear of the courts?
Would a bunch of colonials in Lexington have quietly gone home because they feared the Kings army thinking they might lose?
This time the saying is:
We have nothing to lose but our democracy!
We’re the ones who need to fight, not the MAGAs.
The good fight though, in the words of John Lewis.
@inthehands your bar is so low it is ridiculous. Genocide Joe has already been president for far too long.
@inthehands AOC is 
- so grateful for & to her.
Beau (of the 5th Column) addressed this too, including re: probable lawsuits that would result (5:09 mark).
“I have a whole lot of questions… It's very late in the game & if those people who want to switch Biden out — if they don't have answers to these questions, & good ones, I'm going to suggest that we're thru the door. We can’t stop now...”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPRxuOWkr1E&t=154s
@inthehands They have NO plan!!! Are our democratic "leaders?" actually working for Trumpie now????
Thanks for posting.
AOC gets a lot of press (generally on the extremes side) for her political views.
But for me, (got to meet and pick her brains earlier this year),
She is a legit, smarter-than-media-portrays-her, pragmatic leader.
What can i say: I trust her opinion and insight.
And her opinion will weigh heavier on my mind than nearly any other during the election.
There is no Democratic nominee until a majority of the elected convention delegates vote for someone to be the nominee.
If the candidate with the great majority of committed delegates pulls themselves out of contention and releases those commitments, they can vote for someone else.
There's no legal basis for challenging anything that comes out of a delegate voting process.
"Is an open convention a good idea?" is another question entirety, the answer to which is hell no.
@inthehands @lisamelton Nailed it. The fact is, there *is no plan/nominee(s)* for what happens if Biden steps down. With no plan, Trump wins *every time.*
Anytime you hear a pundit or politician call for Biden to step down the very first thing that must follow is *the full plan including the nominees.* Without that it’s just bitching and moaning - and if they’re politicians they need to step down immediately because they have no idea what they’re doing.
@_tillwe_ Es bereitet mir seit Tagen Kopfzerbrechen. Es wirkt nicht so, als könne Biden noch gewinnen. Und Trump darf nicht gewinnen. Aber dass sich mit Sanders und AOC ausgerechnet meine beiden Orientierungspunkte gegen einen Rückzug aussprechen, verwirrt mich vollends.
@jakif Ich finde das Argument sehr nachvollziehbar, dass jeder Rückzug automatisch vor dem Supreme Court mit seiner politischen Mehrheit landen wird. Eigentlich ist es einfach: Trump darf nicht gewinnen, der Kandidat der Demokraten heißt jetzt als Ergebnis der Primaries etc. Biden, und der muss gewählt werden. Was ab Januar 2025 passiert, passiert dann.
(Und: es scheint, dass gerade der rechte Rand der Demokraten Biden weg haben will - durchaus auch politisch motiviert)