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@mekkaokereke@hachyderm.ioTo be 100% clear: I didn't say that you must cut off family.
I specifically said the opposite: that it's OK not to fight. I said that I get it that some people don't want to cut their Trumpy relatives off because that is really, really hard. I also said that leaving a toxic family can be a good choice.
What I did say, is that if you aren't willing to do those hard things, don't you dare fix your fingers to hop online and blame Black people for anything.
https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/113472251609271026
1/N
I specifically gave the positive example of Jesse Watters' mom, who clearly didn't cut her son off. But he's not invited to Thanksgiving. She's not playing the "Just don't talk politics!" game that so many people play at Thanksgiving, so that they don't have to reckon with who's a hateful bigot.
I'm also pretty sure that Jesse Watters' mom isn't making excuses for her son, or cursing out Black men online like I got cursed out on this website before the election.
2/N
I had a friend in college who invited me to Thanksgiving. I said yes. She gave me a heads up that her grandma was "super old and from a different time, so she might say something racist." So I told her "Then heads up, your granny might be getting cursed out over the mashed potatoes and cranberry sauce." 
She was shocked, and asked if I was serious, and couldn't I just, y'know, ignore it? It's Thanksgiving!
I told her KYP (Know Your Personnel). You should've known that won't work with me.
3/N
The conversation devolved into nonsense about a different era, and me saying "Best I can do, is I'll curse her out like Malcolm Little would've or Huey Newton would've. I can even withhold the profanity and give granny the James Baldwin."
But ultimately, I let her know that it was nonsense for her to even ask that of me, and that no, I'm not coming to Thanksgiving, because I would 100% break granny down with words. The peace of her Thanksgiving table is not my concern. Fighting racism is.
4/N
A few days later, my friend's dad called me, and apologized that she had asked me that, and re-invited me to Thanksgiving, and said that I was 100% right, that I was welcome, and that his own mother was not, and that she could come only on two conditions:
1) If I allowed her to come. It was my call.
2) If she said anything ignorant during dinner, he would put her in the car, and drive her back to the nursing home, and she could eat her turkey on a paper plate alone.
I accepted.
5/N
I'm not saying that what her dad did was easy! It is super hard! Trust me, I understand how hard it was!
But this is what I mean when I say that I'm not that worried about nazis. Seriously, I think we pay them way too much mind. I'm much more concerned about the non-nazis I have around me when the nazis show up. I don't think we focus on them enough.
People unwilling to endure social discomfort to oppose racism aren't bad people! But people who are willing? Are much safer to be around.
6/6
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@mekkaokereke Big props to the dad for getting it right.
Well its not like she is from a time where racism was morally right, and not evil.
It was just a socially accepted evil, and that does in no way justify it.
“It was just a socially accepted evil, and that does in no way justify it.”
BOOM! there it is.
It was NOT socially accepted!!
@OldeHippi only among whites @rasmus91 @mekkaokereke
@OldeHippi @mekkaokereke it was and still is in some social circles.
And that's a general problem; people tend to act as if - if they can build a social group that will accept something, that's a valid substitution for it actually being right. This shit happens all the time.
@rasmus91 @OldeHippi @mekkaokereke Sure it was socially accepted. My deceased in-laws were born in 1935 & 1942, respectively. They saw nothing wrong with naming their dog "Obama" specifically because the dog was black. They regularly referred to Muslims as "diaper-heads." And for them to call almonds "n***** toes" was wholly acceptable in the culture they grew up in.
My dad was born in 1942. In the '90s, he told me with some embarrassment that he grew up calling a slingshot a "n***** shooter."
@courtcan @rasmus91 @mekkaokereke
This is a disgusting post!
@OldeHippi @rasmus91 @mekkaokereke Is it the post that is disgusting or the fact that this is part of white US-American culture?
Calling it disgusting will not change the fact of it.
Looking away from it only gives it more power in the here and now.
My parents grew up in Oklahoma and didn't learn until they were in their 70s that the Tulsa Massacre happened. People spent 90 years calling it awful and looking away. And so nothing changed.
@courtcan @rasmus91 @OldeHippi @mekkaokereke
Secretary (white, ofc) at the first job I had (≈1977-80) had to have it gently explained to her in very small words why it wasn't acceptible to playfully refer to the Black couriers that delivered to our office by calling them [racial slur]-Express.
"Oh. Hm. Well, okay. I guess." 
Hate is hate. It's not acceptable.
@rasmus91 @mekkaokereke Yep. My grandma was white and from the same time, and she happily violated the law to confront racism during the 50’s and 60’s. Like sorry your grandma was not as cool as mine.
@sidereal @rasmus91 @mekkaokereke My white mom was fired for refusing to give a standardized test in Mississippi to her black public high school students because it was designed to "prove" that they weren't smart enough to be in classes with white kids. I walked in civil rights marches with them when I was 5, because they thought it was important that white families be seen as supporters.
@sidereal @rasmus91 @mekkaokereke She watched Trump's acceptance speech and thought being shot had made him a changed man (thanks to exposure to right wing echo chamber media mind-poison in her retirement community)
I pointed out a few realities (she'd never heard of the Central Park 5 and didn't know Kamala was a HBCU grad) but she figured out that he was still an evil shit on her own.
Mom died before the Georgia absentee ballots were sent. I'm glad she wasn't alive to see Trump reelected.
@mekkaokereke Thank you for a great thread on a tough topic.
@mekkaokereke That is an amazing story!
"I am completely indifferent to the fate of Nazis; whether they starve, freeze, wet the bed, have bad dreams, etc., is none of my business. What interests me about them is only one thing: that they are prevented from doing what they do if they are not prevented: threatening and, if possible, killing those who don't fit into their cigar box world." - Wiglaf Droste
Translated with DeepL.com
I was just thinking about him.
“People unwilling to endure social discomfort to oppose racism … ”
The ‘we’ll just ignore it’ approach actually isn’t about *reducing* social discomfort: somebody at that table is going to be uncomfortable however it plays. Instead, it’s a power statement about who gets to feel at ease and who has to feel discomfort; being told to sit and swallow your discomfort is quite explicitly a statement that you are a second class citizen and that you owe deference to others.
I’m personally of the mind that people need to suffer the consequences of their actions in order to learn (some are hardheaded like me, and it takes a few knocks on the head before it gets through!), and for me, the consequence for breaking the social contract is you that don’t get to be part of polite society.
I don’t think I need to explain here how many ways supporting Donald Trump violates the conditions of that contract.
@mekkaokereke I always tell people who go on about "different times" that it's ok, I'll judge them by my grandpa, who was born in 1921, a white working class man. They inevitably fail.
I also told my father in law that he had a choice: using the n-word or be my guest, but never both. Imagine, he has been able to behavie himself ever since. Racist old relatives only dominate the conversation if the others let them.
I once had a conversation with my mother, who lives in another country. At that time, that country was governed by a far-right mini-Emperor-Orange, and I was bashing the guy, while she was defending him. When I said that the guy resembled Emperor Orange, she agreed and said that she even liked Emperor Orange. I told her, and I was being sincere, that if she ever repeated that in front of me, that would be the end for us. She was scared to the point that she took it back and promised to "think it better", which of course I did not expect her to do.
Our implicit agreement is as such. We talk, we have a relationship. If the subject of those people ever come up, in particular Emperor Orange, I will bash the heck out of him, of her, or anyone involved. Of course I accept being bashed as well for anything else. She has however not approached the subject since then.
My dad was born in 1938 in hicks-ville NY state and had a father who grew up in a sunset town and has somehow managed to keep up with the times.
And then there are the lovely people (maybe like your grandpa) who need the times to catch up to them: that’s who I strive (and probably fail) to be.
@mekkaokereke I did something similar with fascists in my family. When invited to an event, I told the host that if the fascists were going to be there, and if they said something racist/fascist, I was probably going to ruin the event, and if they'd rather that not happen, I would not attend, and I gave them the choice. They chose not to have me attend, which told me all I needed to know.
@mekkaokereke it’s the unseen part of the nazi-berg that sinks you
@mekkaokereke I feel the exact same way and I’m glad to see another person say this. The nazis are just gonna do their nazi shit. It’s almost easier for me to get upset at the people who wanna meet them halfway by “not rocking the boat.” At least the nazis are being consistently honest about how they feel. The people apologizing for them won’t even do that!
@mekkaokereke The only Trumper at Thanksgiving will be my niece's husband, and he already gets an earful from the rest of us.
But the Saturday before Thanksgiving, my wife and I have to attend a wedding in Upstate New York, where we'll be in the minority, and I will only be silent in the face of civil silence. If anyone says some shit, they're getting it back by the shovelful.
@mekkaokereke He's also modeling good behaviour for his own daughter and teaching her where boundaries need to be placed. I'm impressed!
@fifilamoura @mekkaokereke I bet he's secretly tired of Gran's shit, anyway.
@klausfiend No doubt. I'm sure her racism is only one of her unpleasant traits. @mekkaokereke
Ah the bravery of you...
Dinner proceeded without incident! Probably because my friend's dad spent most of the evening looking at his mom across the table like this.
My favorite genre of drama: boundary setting 
@mekkaokereke what'd you say about the grandmother attending?
@mekkaokereke 10 years ago, for my wedding, I invited all my cousins but 4 brothers that are racists. I invited their parents (who didn't come). My mother felt uneasy to tell her sister that not the whole family was not invited. When I explained I wanted to be sure my arab and black friend would have a nice party, she understood. "okay, he's far right, but he is nice and funny" is no way for me. Everybody enjoyed, no one had any regrets for not seing them (or no one told me).
@mekkaokereke @le_bleu That’s the thing, I’ll bet 60% of the rest of family didn’t want to see the right wingers either but you’re the only relative with the guts to actually exclude them.
@mekkaokereke this is amazing
@mekkaokereke I love that dad.
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@mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io Wow her dad's amazing 
@mekkaokereke Only people who know nothing about history can use the "she's from a different time" excuse. Lot's of "different time" people - even white people - were anti racist. Her granny chose not to be.
@rejinl @mekkaokereke
“She’s from a different time” is just a variation of “shut up”.
If everyone mentally reframed it that way they might understand it better.
Also, racism has an abuser and a victim. So translated, they aimed to solve an abuse by asking the victim to shut up. Also, as a precondition they are asking you to voluntarily pre-comply and so teach the racist they have unlimited power.
Additionally, the work was on you to explain this was wrong. Very shitty.
/∞
∫ Apart from anything else, the people in that "different time" she was allowed to be racist at back then were also people and it was their time as much as hers.
@petealexharris @rejinl @mekkaokereke
My parents (born in the 1920s) got into trouble while serving in Kenya in the early 1950s, for having a conversation with the black barman in the colonial club. They stood their ground.
It’s nonsense to say that good people weren’t opposing racism in the middle of last century, and before. If you’re an old racist in modern times, you just ignored the change going on around you when you were young. Don’t expect much sympathy from the rest of us!
Exactly!!! Her granny is just a hater!!! She was never "accepted"!!!
That's like excusing a rapist or pedophile at the table. NOPE, NOT GONNA!!!
The whole argument is stupid. She has a thinking of her own time, I have a thinking of my own time, there's no reason she'd have priority. Her own time is in the past, my time is now, if she doesn't like it she can go back there.
@mekkaokereke
@rejinl @mekkaokereke I like to point out to people that throughout the course of human history, there has NEVER been a time when 100% of the population was okay with racism.
@mekkaokereke At my model railroading club the topic of being “from another time” has come up during clashes between younger and older members (Model railroading is heavily dominated by white men over 75 y.o.).
I once asked: “Was it okay to be a piece of shit when you were young?” in response to this argument.
The silence spoke volumes. It’s a bullshit argument, always has been.
@mekkaokereke You're right about "different era" being nonsense. There were white people who were fighting racism over 200 years ago — not the majority or even a large plurality, but enough that they were common knowledge at the time — and your friend's granny wasn't that old.
The difference isn't that white people didn't know about racism 50 or 75 years ago; it's that they knew they could get away with it more easily. Every single one of them made a conscious choice, then, as now.
@mekkaokereke that was a crazy expectation for a friend to have.
@mekkaokereke (I like that; "Lady, you don't deserve my James Baldwin!")
@mekkaokereke nah fuck that. It wasn't excusable back in that different time either.
I just want to know, after all this, is your 'friend' wiser now? Does she understand how awful it was for her to excuse her granny's hate and, even worse, to expect you to take it?
Where is the 'friend' in her own form of excuding racism?
Much wiser now! 
She looks back on the incident and cringes... not at her granny, but at her actions. She feels bad that I had to advocate for myself, but is happy that I did.
I find that lots of people don't know how to respond in these situations. Seeing the right behavior modelled, can make the situation less stressful.
She feels more comfortable calling out nonsense that she sees now, and she's teaching her husband (and I'm sure, eventually her kids) to do the same.