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@aral is pointing out the simple fact that companies with a quite decent overall budget are pushing out essential software that excludes people who had been better supported before. As everybody trying out accessibility features under Wayland vs. x11 can easily experience.
Nowhere is he posting blanket statements like your "people are not supporting accessibility". These are your misrepresentations of what he is saying.
Quote him correctly.
> From the actually-what-you’re-referring-to-as-ableism-is-GNU/ableism department
Quoted the blanket statement.
Not only that, but the post complains that a Fedora maintainer said that patches are welcome, and yet the first instinct in response to that is to want to block them? Not a productive attitude.
If you care about the problem, then instead of calling people abliest, go help the people who are working on this problem. GNOME is backing AccessKit, which will be in COSMIC.
@katzenberger @mmstick @aral every linux distribution? is that blanket enough?
@ragectl @katzenberger @mmstick Quote me correctly: “a glaring accessibility issue in nearly every major Linux distribution on the planet”
https://mastodon.ar.al/@aral/112647420910468423
GNOME and KDE, the two major display environments, both default to Wayland.
- Fedora, RHEL, etc.
- Ubuntu
- OpenSUSE
- Any other distribution that defaults to default behaviour of GNOME & KDE
PopOS doesn’t, but apparently System76 decided this is their hill to die on anyway. 
@aral @katzenberger @mmstick in that case, I was referring to the statement here https://mastodon.ar.al/@aral/112638007852850343 so you're quoted correctly
@aral @katzenberger @mmstick so now that we've clarified that you're not just talking about IBM and Canonical
@ragectl @katzenberger @mmstick Not that it needing clarification but, sure. I believe I’ve been very clear and consistent about what the problem is.
@ragectl @katzenberger @mmstick No, without the rest of the sentence my words are out of context as the rest of the sentence qualifies the bit you quoted and limits its scope.
“Every Linux distribution” (which is what you quoted) is not the same as “Every Linux distribution that ships with Wayland by default – and that’s almost every major Linux distribution” and you know it.
Anyway, now the context has been added in this thread so I don’t see any reason to bikeshed this further.
@aral @ragectl @katzenberger System76 isn't dying on any hill. We have been committing part of our COSMIC resources to accessibility work so that COSMIC will have functioning accessibility on release. In fact, we are currently in the process of upstreaming our AccessKit work from libcosmic into iced right now.
At the end of the day, complaining about problems on here won't achieve anything. If you want to see improvements in accessibility, then do what we're doing. Contribute, submit PRs, etc.
@mmstick @ragectl @katzenberger Clearly complaining on here archives one thing: it sheds light on the unchecked ableism inherent in the IBM/RedHat/Fedora/Wayland/GNOME/KDE world that allowed a screen reader to be broken on at least one major Linux distribution (Fedora) for EIGHT YEARS. How many features, details, etc. were created in that time?
And again, you guys didn’t ship a broken screen reader so I don’t know why you’re leading the charge to shut me up but sure, whatever.
@aral @ragectl @katzenberger No, it sheds light on your desire to falsely accuse volunteers of doing things they aren't.
Fedora is not Red Hat or IBM. It is a community project that is sponsored by Red Hat. Same goes for most Linux projects: community-driven with some sponsored contract work.
If you actually cared about accessibility, you wouldn't be here bullying people with virtue signaling. You would be getting involved and sponsoring accessibility work. That's how open source works.
@mmstick @ragectl @katzenberger You know what, Michael, you can take your “virtue signaling” and shove it.
Gives me a very good idea of the kind of culture you guys have at System 76 if those are the terms you’re using. And I’ll be very happy not to have anything to do with it in the future. To think I was recommending you guys to people. Won’t be making that mistake again.
Goodbye.
@aral @mmstick @ragectl @katzenberger lmao, bye Becky and your virtue signaling
@mmstick @aral @ragectl @katzenberger my brother in Christ, Fedora is upstream Red Hat, full stop. Have you not been paying attention the last few years since they killed CentOS?
Also, is @system76 aware of how bad you're making them look right now? It might be time for a media training refresher course.
@dave @aral @ragectl @katzenberger @system76 Exactly. Fedora is upstream to RHEL, and Debian is upstream to Ubuntu. Red Hat sponsors Fedora, and Ubuntu sponsors Debian. Both Fedora and Debian are community projects.
The only people who need a refresher course here are those making false accusations against open source communities who do, in fact, have people actively working on accessibility projects. Defending open source with facts makes me look bad? Get a grip. Check yourself.
@mmstick @aral @ragectl @katzenberger @system76 bud, if you're claiming Ubuntu is upstream of Debian you need to go to Open Source 101.
Do you even understand what upstream *means*?
@dave I had the order flipped. You should re-read it again.
@mmstick congratulations for putting pants on after claiming you weren't showing your whole ass.
I award you no points.
@mmstick @aral @ragectl @katzenberger ya know, reading this thread first I was getting the impression that Aral might be full of shit. i have a lot of sympathy for the "this isn't a company, just a bunch of volunteers" line. But then I went back and read the linked toot that this is actually about and that changed my impressions VERY quickly.
Certainly sounds like Fedora was the one "virtue signaling" here. Organizing and advertising a big push to fix accessibility issues, but then when someone actually reports an accessibility issue that person gets told to go fix it themselves?? So as an organization they care enough to talk about it, but not enough to write the code. Regardless of what they may or may not be doing behind the scenes, that's the message they sent.
What even is the point of a distro if they're going to tell their users they have to go learn to code and write the distro themselves? Responding to a bug/issue report with "patches welcome" is just a polite way of saying "fuck off".
There's clearly more people volunteering to get Wayland shipped than there are volunteering to get Wayland accessible. So what happens if distros started saying they won't ship it until it's accessible? I think we'd find a lot more energy would get put into making it accessible. You can't force volunteers to work on a particular project, but you can certainly find ways to make them want to.