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I am waiting on analysis from Brazilian lawyers before I weigh in on how legal Brazilian court's decision to block X is, but I can safely say that the fines for individual users accessing the site over a VPN are crazypants.
@evacide X is crazypants.
@jajo I have principles and they don't stop applying just because a state is acting against a platform run by a person I don't like.
@evacide It´s easy to handle. Get a legally responsible for X in Brazil
@jajo Punish the company, not the users.
@evacide Well, they just did. Right?
@jajo They also punished the users, which is the behavior I am criticizing.
@evacide That's what concerns Elon? Then, get a legally responsible. It's the law in Brazil.
@jajo That's what concerns me, the person you are talking to right now. And we are about to stop talking because I don't think fruitful communication with you is possible.
@evacide You have to accept that X needs a legally responsible in Brasil. I have. It's not something about a fruitful communication. Its about acceptance.
@DiogoConstantino Yes, of course I agree with you. But get that legally responsible and then the issue is closed. Brasil is a vere large country with their laws and we should not tempt them to cut the services away. @evacide
@DiogoConstantino If I were you I shouldn't care about the X users. It's Elons customers which he should take care of himself. And I have mentioned how to. @evacide
@jajo @evacide twitter users are mostly not twitter customers or even fans of Musk.
I believe all people should be treated equally under fair and balanced laws, and never unfairly abused, or mistreated by the Law. If you don't believe in that, then you're not a defender of the Rule of Law, Democracy, and Human Rights.
@DiogoConstantino Thing is that neither you or I decides what is law in Brasil. You just follow it or your fucked. I remember very well when the digital society was not into common law. I don't want that time back.
r @evacide
@DiogoConstantino In Elons term they should be called customers which is another story of what they really are and who has the responsibility. @evacide
@DiogoConstantino
Thank you very much for your opinion.
@evacide
@jajo I have a nagging feeling that the point @evacide made went well over your head.
It's not about space karen or zombie twitter, it's about Brazilian cirizens that _use_ the site being fined. Which imho is as wrong as fining someone for reading 4chan or mein kampf.
Legal rep for the dumpstertoddler ain't going to change that. It's irrelevant as it's about Brazilians fining Brazilians, not about the spoilt brat. Not everything is about that cockwomble.
@JorisMeys No, It has not went over my head. I am very well into this discussion. I believe in FOSS. Which X is not. @evacide
@evacide has Brazil fined any users yet? I saw that the fine they threatened was pretty outrageous.
@kkeller Not that I'm aware of, but it's like they've had a lot of time in which to get started. And even having the fine on the books has a chilling effect that is cause for concern.
@evacide It really seems to conflate bad behaviour by the company with bad behaviour by its customers. (Although the court also seems to conflate the company with its owner in banning Starlink.)
@michaelgemar @evacide Starlink isn't complying with the order to block X, so it is internally consistent without requiring a "they just dislike Elon" rationale
@ekuber @michaelgemar @evacide she didn't even spoke about starlink, you're missing the point...
@evacide Paying a fine for subjectong yourself to that site? Talk about victim-blaming!
@evacide@hachyderm.io absolutely. Was the VPN fine actually put into effect though? I thought they cancelled that.
@vetehinen According to this article <https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/02/x-blocked-in-brazil-after-court-majority-upholds-suspension-order.html> one of the judges expressed concern about the VPN stuff but it was not struck down.
"One justice, Luiz Fux, voted to uphold but expressed “reservations” about a measure of the order that allows the court to fine individuals or businesses that engage in “subterfuge,” for example using VPNs, to use X while it is blocked"
@vetehinen (Edit, correcting myself:) so far, the removal of VPN apps from play stores has been temporarily suspended, but the 50k sanction against users accessing Twitter remains.
- follow the laws
- follow their gov agency regulations
- answer to the judiciary if they demand something
Twitter is not doing what is expected for a private company to do in those cases.
It's not suprsing to see their product blocked.
This will happen with any company doing the same, this behavior is unacceptable in Brazil, and honestly everywhere.
@kariboka This would be a really insightful post if it was a reply to a post that gave a legal analysis of the block or claimed that the block was in some way illegal instead of a post that pointedly did not do that and instead expressed a non-legal opinion about a different aspect of the order that specifically punishes users rather than the company.
@evacide the X disobeid legal ordens. The sanction for Musk's actions was, in limite, the suspention of the plataform. He knew that. He pushed the processo using the users as Shields for his criminal conduct. I can garante you that there is nothing ilegal running here and that Musk IS wrong. We had 20 years of ditarship and censorship in Brazil. We KNOW what IS censorship.
I feel like, stay with me here, sometimes I have a feel for how @evacide@hachyderm.io's day is going.
@evacide Brazillian lawyers? Wow, that's going to cost you some real money!
@evacide And it could serve as a reason to criminalize VPNs in general.
@evacide ....Brazilian SC panel affirms SC jurists order to shut 'er down....
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/02/world/americas/brazil-elon-musk-supreme-court.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb
@evacide
With or without corporate legal counsel this was Elon’s decision.
@Kencf618033 @evacide fining Twit users who use a VPN was not Elon's decision.
@Kencf618033 @evacide what's next? Should we fine Trump voters for voting for him?
“Moraes has also threatened to levy a fine of 50,000 reais ($8,902.66) a day on those using VPNs to access the social network, although it remains unclear how enforceable that threat is.”
I would say the keyword is “threaten” and even without actually starting to fine the users (at least until now), the real objective is being accomplished.