I’ll second this from @suzannealdrich. As a person nonreligious by belief and by upbringing, it’s been easy for me to be dismissive of religion — but the fact is I’ve known •far• too many really kind, really intelligent, really •good• religious people to hold on to any kind of Dawkinsian smugness about my worldview. Finding acceptance for outlooks I don’t share has made some really important relationships possible that would not have been otherwise. +1 would recommend
https://hachyderm.io/@suzannealdrich/112865091220889870
@inthehands @suzannealdrich I've also known my share of individually good Christian people. But that doesn't mitigate the extreme global scale harm Christians as a group are actively doing. I'm not going to be the one to tell victims of that harm how to speak about it.
@jenniferplusplus @suzannealdrich
Given that some of the people I know who are fighting most tenaciously against those harms are •also• Christians, I am quite willing to say to the world in general that we should be careful about making bad generalizations. I don’t chastise individuals who’ve been in the crosshairs, however.
@inthehands @suzannealdrich I get that, but I'm also struggling to find the difference between this and "not all men."
There is definitely a way to encourage, praise, and support the ones who are doing the work in their own community, and criticize the institution.
@jenniferplusplus @suzannealdrich
Yes, just so. My only minor quibble with that would be to recognize that “institutions” here is plural.
Again, per the OP, the invitation is for those to open doors who have the privilege of doing so — not to ignore trauma, or to prioritize the comfort of some over the trauma of others.
@jenniferplusplus @inthehands @suzannealdrich
No “shepherds of this earth” explanations. Woefully incomplete.
Also - as a woman, I’ll never be qualified to be head of household so what do I know.
<sarcasm>
@inthehands @suzannealdrich I'd like to share a _personal_ lesson - you may or may not be able to relate.
I'm an utterly atheist person and have always considered myself non religious. I studied biology and researched cognition and consciousness. Some time ago I became convinced that many more animals than I thought may be aware and became vegan. I consider my veganism a religious conviction. And then it hit me, that my conviction that y'all are aware is religious, too.
@inthehands That's where I've got to as well, but it can be a long road. Trauma takes time in safety to heal. With so many loud Christian voices lining up behind state enforced harm right now, safety can be hard to find. Nothing wrong with asking for generosity, but I hope nobody's expecting it.
@suzannealdrich
@williampietri @suzannealdrich
Tolerance and good judgement are never things that can be demanded. Especially where personal trauma is involved.
@inthehands @suzannealdrich big man in sky calls bullshit
@inthehands @suzannealdrich How can you be respectful of people who base their actions on ghosts, myths, and dogma. They reject science and truth. Look at all the awful things done in the past and currently in the name of religions.
@inthehands @joby @suzannealdrich I'm torn on this, because I've known some people I would normally call very good people who were also very religious, and I want to coexist in harmony, too. (1/4)
But then almost without exception, I've known them to do or say or hold some truly atrocious positions based on nothing more than said religion, and not only just lacking evidence for said positions, but usually in direct contradiction of evidence. Not that religious people have a monopoly on acting shitty, but they're the group who will then act like their shitty behavior is ancient and sacred and actually unproblematic, and YOU'RE the asshole for actually bringing it up. (2/4)
I'm down with being tolerant and accepting of religious folk and their beliefs PROVIDED they extend that same courtesy right back when folks do something antithetical to their religion, and the more religious someone is, I have found them to be far less willing to extend said tolerance. (3/4)
Put another way, I'm perfectly willing to accept religious people, but NOT at the expense of allowing myself or people I care about to be stepped on in the process. The courtesy HAS to go both ways, and a lot of religions have codified that it cannot. (4/4)
@danhulton @inthehands @suzannealdrich Oh definitely. The ol' paradox of tolerance.
@joby @inthehands @suzannealdrich Yeah, exactly.