hachyderm.io is one of the many independent Mastodon servers you can use to participate in the fediverse.
Hachyderm is a safe space, LGBTQIA+ and BLM, primarily comprised of tech industry professionals world wide. Note that many non-user account types have restrictions - please see our About page.

Administered by:

Server stats:

9.5K
active users

I have a hot take that ultimately a lot of the kerfuffle about immigration *everywhere* is about the growing class and wage disparity of tech money and other jobs.

Across the world, people who work in tech hubs: have similar profiles, backgrounds, education, experience, and a lot more mobility than most others.

Every country’s ‘native’ population that feels left out and ignored and neglected by their own situation, finds it easy to blame the ‘foreign elite’, when it’s their own elites messing them up too.

I said it a few days ago: a software developer from Bangalore or Singapore or London or Berlin has a shorter cultural and professional distance to traverse to Silicon Valley or New York jobs and money, than someone from Fresno or Salinas. What more someone from a totally different state.

The visa gets them in, and there is some exploitation (in other ways than wages); but they aren’t the reason why ‘Americans’ aren’t getting these jobs. They’re the symptom, not the cause.

My experience working in tech jobs across the world has also shown me: while tech jobs are varied and diverse in SF and Silicon Valley, this is also where the industry ‘professionalized’ (and ossified, if you ask me) much earlier. So someone with no or very little experience is going to find it hard to break in, no matter what their nationality or immigration status.

It’s not as easy to ‘switch roles’ or ‘industries’ (in London or Berlin or SG I can easily see someone doing software dev at a fintech place then going to like consumer, not so here). You’re defined by the last job(s) you had. It’s also harder for people with non-STEM background to get in the way it used to be >10 years ago. The ‘office jobs’ like events planning or sales.. have also professionalized. You just do that thing and only that.

People are frustrated they don’t have a shot, especially when tech jobs feel like the only way to make a living wage these days in some cities.

And those of us who are >15 years in tech from a time when you got (eventually) well paid jobs for knowing how to turn on and off a computer (at first), and being in the right place at the right time (cities that eventually became tech hubs), don’t appreciate how hard it is to get into it now. The field needs people of all backgrounds. But at the same time, the industry has also been transformed by shareholder maximization over technological developments, above all else.

It’s hard to make an argument ‘learn to code’! The ‘better life’ hasn’t exactly always panned out for people who did that through bootcamps and other methods, who don’t have the cultural cachet of top schools and industry relationships. Maybe it did for a while, but no longer, I think.

Look at housing prices of all the tech hubs around the world: they are almost the same, too. Neoliberalism has made a certain same-ness about each one of these cities. Including the same tech vs non tech disparity.

Sometimes, I help acquaintances from China and India tech cos apply for Singapore tourist visas (citizens can apply for others). They have to send me their salary info to do that. Without fail, the people who work at the top companies in these countries make far more than the median U.S. tech salary, in USD. (Not *everyone*, but the people most likely to get international job offers, do)

They have no interest in coming to the U.S. to make an average Silicon Valley salary (they already make close to this number, and live in places where this goes further).

They will come for career growth, to do interesting things they can’t do elsewhere, to work at big tech with good stock options.

‘Everyone is a wage slave!!’ Is a lot of concern commenting, ultimately rooted in the exceptionalist belief that everyone wants the opportunity to come to the U.S.

Maybe it was true 20 years ago, it’s certainly not as true now.

@skinnylatte I've seen folks wanting to come here where I've thought "why???" in the sense that it doesn't seem like a good economic deal (worse wages relative to cost of living and buying power, vastly higher health care costs, ...) and the reasons usually come out to be things like opportunity for next generation, perceived social status, ability to get away from "home town" environment to a place where outsiders are not unusual and nominally have equal rights, etc.

@dalias for many queer / trans people, some US states are still the least bad option. EU / Australia isn’t as great on some of those things for immigrants as people assume.

@skinnylatte @dalias Yeah that's a pretty wrong assumption - many big Australian and EU cities are so much better for queer people than the US. And no first world country hates women and minorities more than the USA

@h4sh @dalias that’s why I said *some* US states, not *all*. It can be difficult to access gender-affirming care *at all* in *some countries* often thought to be *better*.

@h4sh @dalias France (including Paris) is also shockingly transphobic, and also very casually so. I often felt very uncomfortable

@skinnylatte @dalias Yikes. Imo Berlin is probably the most queer friendly city in Europe. In Australia it'd be Melbourne

Adrianna Tan

@h4sh @dalias I worked in Melbourne for a while. Within progressive circles I felt fine but there was a ton of UK-aligned transphobia among cis women that I very frequently rubbed up against. Hopefully that’s better but I’m not certain.