hachyderm.io is one of the many independent Mastodon servers you can use to participate in the fediverse.
Hachyderm is a safe space, LGBTQIA+ and BLM, primarily comprised of tech industry professionals world wide. Note that many non-user account types have restrictions - please see our About page.

Administered by:

Server stats:

9.9K
active users

🤡Oh we're uploading charts about why teens are unhappy? And saying it's "the phones" or "the apps?"

Well, let me upload my charts!

Showing that:
* Black kids are online *much more* than white kids.
* Black kids have seen *much less* increase in depression since 2011.

🙂🙃

If you ask older conservative adjacent dudes what's making teens depressed, they'll confidently tell you "smartphones and apps!"

But if you ask teens what's making them depressed, they'll tell you "older conservative adjacent dudes."

The racist people that used to target Black teens online, in real life, at school, at the doctor's office...

...have now started targeting white teens, online, in real life, at school, and at the doctor's office.

Like we said they would. 🤷🏿‍♂️

Picture a white teenage girl posting the following on Instagram:

"Feeling blessed! I just voted for Katie Porter, because she supports reproductive rights and gun control and anti-racism! I personally don't plan to have kids. I can't afford it! And I care about the environment."

There's a good chance that she could wind up the target of several different F*x News segments or attacks by sitting politicians.

I count at least 6 issues she could be attacked for, and receive online threats of violence for.

Yeah, that might make her unhappy.

mekka okereke :verified:

That's before we even get to the unhappiness from unhealthy comparison to others.

If your solution for increasing her happiness is "Just don't be online!" Then I don't know what to tell you. I can't even argue with that. We're too far apart to even have a meaningful conversation.

Yes, a Black teen girl posting that same thing to Instagram would receive the same abuse. Worse actually.

But your racist F*x News watching relatives have been dishing this abuse out to Black folk since forever. It's not new to us.

What's new is that the hate has now come for your kids.

@mekkaokereke

> What's new is that the hate has now come for your kids.

That was my take on what you said. Reading that (I'm LGBTQIA+) I immediately think about all the other areas that are invisible boundaries they don't see until all of us flow around them. At risk groups are always the 'canary in the mine' for these types of behaviors and they just never listen.

There is too much personal ownership. They would have to read and understand the blindness, and that hurts. Way easier to just blame the applications.

@mentallyalex @mekkaokereke Makes me think of Swedish people in the 80s who went "people shouldn't adopt Korean kids because other kids will mock them" and we kids knew that yeah those kids who would mock them are your kids, the rest of us just treat them as friends and classmates.

@clacke Oh wow - I had no idea. (I'm painfully American in some areas :blobcatgiggle: )

Yea that makes a lot of sense. We have those same struggles with non-white babies. It's harder to adopt as people want babies that they can pretend erupted from them directly.

I grew up around a few adopted people and I have non-white family members that I grew up with. They experienced a lot of unique discomfort because they were non-white living in white neighborhoods with white family members. In specific they were made to feel like they weren't real members of our family.

One of them has dealt with those issues into their adulthood and in our later adult life.

@mekkaokereke

@clacke @mentallyalex @mekkaokereke Oh Dang, I hadn't considered that angle before, the one where the parental concern is mixed in with an acknowledgment that they're not going to do anything to right the wrong over which they are expressing concern. Another thing to add to my list of things to research for my Master's project.

@trishalynn @clacke @mentallyalex @mekkaokereke you should see the uproar when adult transracial adoptees suggest to current white adoptive parents that the thing they need to do for their kids is move into neighborhoods, churches, and social spaces dominated by people who look like their kids.

@rosalux @clacke @mentallyalex @mekkaokereke I am reminded of a white friend who made a point of taking her Black adopted son to a Black barbershop when he was nearing teenager-hood. She got it, I think.

@mentallyalex @mekkaokereke
“For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.” — H. L. Mencken

Works especially well if the solution is banning/attacking some newer thing that parents didn’t have when they were young, whether that’s rock & roll, or D&D, or rap, or computers, or the internet, or mobile phones, or texting, or smartphones, or social media, (or trans people), or…

@mekkaokereke exactly this. My kid has been getting pro-Nazi ads on YouTube for years - and cannot report them, or stop them, even though their account is listed as underage, *because it is being done via paid advertisement.* They aren't really on social media, but do watch videos made by friends or recommended by friends - YouTube is literally trying to recruit my kid, and yours, to be a literal Nazi, and good luck doing a damn thing about it. Poor kid has been so upset by this.

@secretsloth This is one of the reasons why I pay for YouTube Premium: No ads.
If you aren’t paying for the product, you aren’t the customer, you are the product.
And, yes, there is a family license for YouTube Premium, and it comes with ad-free YouTube Music, too.
I’m not trying to shill for Alphabet; they are perfectly able to do that for themselves. But so many people don’t know that it is possible to avoid ads on YouTube.

@bhawthorne @mekkaokereke this is why I *don't* pay for it. I absolutely refuse to give them my money, it would be no better than paying Facebook or Twitter for account security - what they're doing is disgusting and I'm not going to pay them to stop. It won't stop my kid from having to see content like that, they'll still see it elsewhere. The main issue with YouTube specifically is that those ads breach their own policies, and yet can't be reported. No $.

@secretsloth @bhawthorne @mekkaokereke This problem exists on apps, too. The app can be restricted by age but the ads are not. So you can get ads for adult-content apps (e.g. porn, gambling, extreme violence) playing in an app meant for toddlers—and with some apps there’s no option to remove them. I shouldn’t have to install a domain blocker to keep my kid from seeing adult content in their children’s game, but that’s how it is.

@shawrd773 I find all ads to be inappropriate for children, and would not recommend using anything ad-supported for children, at least until they are mature enough to have learned basic media literacy and self-protection skills.

@secretsloth If you or your kids watch YouTube videos, you ARE paying for them. If you don’t subscribe, then Alphabet makes their money by selling you and your kids to their advertisers. And your kids are paying with their sanity and future well-being. Is it worth it?

@bhawthorne personally, I avoid it like the plague, and kid watches when friends send a link there. so............ ? I'm missing the part where I'm going insane, or my kid is. Those ads don't need to be viewed 70, 80, hell even 10 times to be upsetting. The fact that they came up, and came up repeatedly on videos targeted to children, on an account piloted by a child? That's bad enough. If it were up to me, kid just wouldn't watch YouTube, but this isn't that sort of world.

@secretsloth “This isn’t that sort of world.” No? As parents, it is our job to manage what our kids encounter and how they learn to navigate the world. Did you really mean to imply that it is some corporation’s job to decide what your kid does and does not experience or encounter? Is that the world you want?

Our kids eventually forgave us for not having phones or unfettered Internet access until they had shown they were mature enough to handle them.

@bhawthorne @secretsloth

if you want to improve your kids' physical health by reducing how much sugar they consume, that works because you and your kids have individual control over what they eat

but social media isn't an individual activity, it's collective

if your daughter spends six hours a day on instagram, that's bad for her mental health, she'll be isolated, lonely, depressed, anxious, have body image issues and eating disorders

but taking her phone away doesn't solve the problem because all her friends are still on instagram six hours a day, and now she's out of the loop, ostracized, isolated, lonely, depressed and anxious

you'd have to eliminate social media use not only for your daughter, but for her entire cohort

@ares @bhawthorne @secretsloth I have two nieces who have extraordinarily limited access to screens (they have iPads that are locked down and only allowed a few hours of access per week - and the family TV is on for one or two movies a week). They are •voracious• readers (as are their parents), seem quite well adjusted, and have lots of friends. They’re also the smartest, most inventive, kids I’ve ever met.

Six hours a day on Instagram sounds like a horrible idea.

@carlrj @bhawthorne @secretsloth

the trick is to find other friends who also aren't on social media six hours a day

If you're paying for an ad-free tier, you're not paying for the product, you're paying a ransom.

@tunguska @mekkaokereke ah, thank you, I actually hadn't heard there was something that worked for Android. Kid had something that worked, but then it stopped (you'll be really pleased to hear they are now getting furry waifu ads instead, for now at least. I am really relieved 😅 but it has become a sad sort of joke at our house that we've gone from nazi to furries!)(we actually known and love many furries, but do not desire any waifus)

@secretsloth @tunguska @mekkaokereke I can vouch for Newpipe on Android. The interface is kinda clunky but it's solid software! Unfortunately you do have to sideload it, because obviously Google doesn't allow it in the Play Store -- but as long as you get it from the official site or from F-Droid, it's perfectly safe.

@adrienne @tunguska @mekkaokereke ahhhhh that explains a lot! I was just wondering about that 😅 thanks for confirming!

@secretsloth @tunguska @mekkaokereke (Sideloading is tricky because there IS malware out there -- but then, sometimes there's malware in the Play Store too! Again, though, I can vouch for Newpipe as safe. If your kid can't figure out how to install it -- the instructions are slightly different for different phones -- tell them to do a search for "sideload apps [phone model]" and they should get clear directions!

@adrienne ahhh that should work, kiddo is usually pretty savvy but *now and then* clicks a dumb link (cough minecraft mods cough) lol easily googled instructions are so nice 😅

@secretsloth Hey, we've ALL clicked a bad link once or twice. Malware is an arms race, and nobody can possibly stay on top of every possible security challenge.

@adrienne yeah, that's the truth. I do worry more with kid of course because while I care about being spied on, I really do take it personally if somebody compromises *them* 😱 luckily the incident happened right after we'd changed computers, so we just reinstalled Windows, because that was actually the only solution, but we didn't lose anything. A good teaching opportunity, and now kiddo is quite careful.

@secretsloth @tunguska @mekkaokereke another approach (and to be clear, you should not have to do any of these in order to not be exposed to Nazi-promoting ads) is to pay for a subscription to YouTube.

I started doing that when I realized I was paying for several streaming services and was ad-free, except on YouTube, and thought, “why pay with •aggravation• for watching YouTube?”. Subscription has the advantage that it works •everywhere•, including Apple TV, with no additional setup or hacking.

@carlrj @tunguska @mekkaokereke aside from not wanting to give my money to them, part of the issue is that my kid was seeing the ads on a school computer, which logs in using a school account. It's a different type of Gmail, I have no ability to modify it, I can't sign it up for a sub. And even then, kid would be at friends' houses... there's really no way to actually block this content.

@secretsloth @tunguska @mekkaokereke I see. As a side issue, it sounds like it might be worth making a big deal out of this with the school (“school kids forced by school to watch ads with objectionable content”).

@carlrj @tunguska @mekkaokereke I mean, there are HUGE issues with this, schools making accounts for kids on gmail (required), google having this info, they collect info they're not meant to and keep it (they've been sued for it repeatedly) - the whole thing is worth making a big deal over, honestly. I shouldn't have to hand over my kid's personal info to Google for them to get an education, period. The issues are just... huge.

@secretsloth adblock do an "Adblock for youtube" for browsers, but that won't help with the app. I try not to use the Youtube app on my phone, and use Kiwi Browser (which accepts most Chrome plugins and extensions, including adblock for youtube) to watch youtube stuff without ads. It may be a bit of initial faffing about, but long term it solves lots of problems! 😎
@mekkaokereke

@BackFromTheDud fair. I have got their computer set up so they can watch things on their computer just fine, thank goodness, hopefully unless something broke 🤔 should double check. but yeah the apps ... they're always trying to find ways to block the good apps. And then we wait for another app. Kiddo mostly uses their phone for videos. They're really pretty savvy for a teenager but then every now and then they need brain bleach because, impulse. 🫣 I'll bookmark to check PC later. 👍

@secretsloth @mekkaokereke give us money or we will turn your kid into a nazi is one hell of a business plan

@ATLeagle @secretsloth @mekkaokereke

I have all the ads fully blocked, but since 2018 when I finally decided to learn to drive and got my licence in 2019, I've been constantly getting right wing conspiracy videos in amongst anything car-related. What concerns me is although I was older when this started (late 40s), my viewing profile would exactly match a younger lad in their teens who is interested in cars and driving, and that lad would be more vulnerable to the propaganda..

@vfrmedia @ATLeagle @mekkaokereke yeah that's what upsets my kid also, they mostly watch gaming videos their friends post, and what's worse, some of it happens *on the school accounts,* the ones the high school created that the parents have no control over (i.e., no way to anonymize any data, the kids' real names and birthdays are directly connected), during breaks at school. It's truly disturbing, and it absolutely should not be happening.

@secretsloth @ATLeagle @mekkaokereke

this is increasingly classed as a safeguarding concern in UK/Europe, although I'm not sure what is currently being done about it, and I fear that the govts (both UK and EU) will swing to the opposite extreme and start regulating online content hard, to the point that USA corps (having lost ad revenue) doesn't just take its ball home but pours petrol into the entire playground and lights up the lot (denying the kids the positive aspects of social media) >>

@secretsloth @ATLeagle @mekkaokereke

its already the case I cannot view half the USA news website links my mutuals post as the companies have made a commercial decision to block Europeans due to GDPR preventing them using the same adtech software common in America, I only expect this to become more widespread as laws regarding what is acceptable online diverge between nations...

@vfrmedia ohhhhhh I see what you mean there. Internationally, it's possible, but I suspect more companies will fill in those gaps. Truthfully, I don't think big tech is as invincible as it thinks - it's big, but LOTS of people have already left, my kid doesn't want anything to do with the big companies, their friends don't either, because of all the spying they do. It might take some time, but I think it will end up with the US isolated, more than anything. Our laws are crap.

@vfrmedia @ATLeagle @mekkaokereke I don't think that will work, I'm not sure if you have kids, but... I honestly think the time to try to restrict kids' access in ANY way whatsoever for their own protection has passed. However, I don't think the corps will do that, since the younger set is still a large part of their audience, more likely they'll make some claims to be fixing it, and attempt to mask the problem, that's their usual tactic.

@secretsloth @mekkaokereke if they're using Android, YouTube Vanced is awesome. It blocks ads and even skips the in-video promotions a lot of YouTubers do.

youtubevanced.com/

It looks like there is an iOS equivalent, but I don't have any experience with it, so I can't say how well it will work.

ihax.io/youtube/

youtubevanced.comYouTube Vanced - Download YouTube Vanced APKYouTube Vanced is modded version of YouTube client for Android

@thefyuuri @secretsloth @mekkaokereke omg I am so happy I came across this discussion! Just downloaded it for android and it's amazing.

@ManyRoads yes! I love ublock, they've got that and a bunch of tracker blockers and other things on PC. Just they end up getting links while they're out and about, and bored. Although I'm getting some alternative app recommendations, so hopefully this will be a big help and it won't be a problem anymore. Phew.

@ManyRoads ah cool! I'll bookmark that, I've been thinking about trying linux and I'll need something like that if/when. 👍

@secretsloth @mekkaokereke this is why everyone should block ads, especially for the sake of kids, either by using an adlocker like ublock origin or a third party app like freetube or pipeviewer, or a privacy frontend like invidious

@big_louse @mekkaokereke yeah. Honestly... I know it sounds really naive to say it now, but I thought kiddo being on an underage account, I thought they'd vet the ads at least? I saw it once, it was really... unbelievable. I'm still somewhere between speechless and boiling mad. You just wouldn't expect your kid to casually watch some video and be bombarded with Nazi recruitment. Or I wouldn't have, a few years ago. We shouldn't have to know to put up these walls... 😔

@secretsloth @mekkaokereke its not an unreasonable assumption, at this point having looked into YouTube's radicalization pipeline I'm convinced the site is run by right wingers if not open fascists, its not just neutral money making, watching anything political leads to Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro and then to more extreme stuff. Its not just accidental.

@big_louse @mekkaokereke it definitely feels very insidious and those ads led back to videos on YouTube - the videos themselves could be reported, or dismissed if they were simply "recommended." The ads cannot. I can't tell you how low my stomach dropped, because you're right. There's no way they're unaware of this, therefore they're at best complicit. Parenting nowadays is... :artsweats:

@tunguska @mekkaokereke @KimCrayton1 This is something I have dug into too. The Rockefeller Institute has done some incredible reporting that makes the wild federal support for red states very clear.

Here is their report for 2019, the last pre-pandemic year. rockinst.org/issue-area/balanc

Including a screenshot of a table from the report. The red numbers mean the state paid more than it received. Notice theyre almost entirely blue states.

@mekkaokereke This last bit is critical. While I'm a straight white man who only relatively recently had the luck to end up in diverse communities, it's frustrating to see people suddenly worrying about online harassment as a novel invention.

See also: "Now we're suddenly living in [insert big-name dystopia]." No, we were living in the dystopia when the author wrote the story, but we in non-vulnerable communities sided with the villains.

@mekkaokereke

I saw a similar essay that suggested the thing depressing teens is the messed up adults in their lives.

"The CDC’s 2022 report found 3 to 4 times more teens reporting parental abuses (55%) than its 2023 report found for school (15%) or cyber (16%) bullying, even though the agency’s definition of parental abuse is narrower than for peer bullying."

"Social Media Isn’t the Main Reason Teens Are Depressed"

yesmagazine.org/health-happine

Honestly connecting with others going through similar experiences is probably beneficial to teens mental health.

Though I bet conservatives hate it because peer support makes it a lot more likely they'll figure out the problem is the adults (especially conservative adults who want to enforce a rigid white christian supremacist patriarchy) and figure out the correct answer is to rebel against the oppressive hierarchies.

YES! Magazine · Social Media Isn’t the Main Reason Teens Are DepressedBy Mike Males

@mekkaokereke that's bullshit all day long. No one is immune from harassment, bullying, hate speech.

@mekkaokereke The "online" in this example pretty much means "social media" - aka, "Where people meet to communicate with others". It's like saying, "just don't participate in society!"

Which, to be fair... yeah, actually, participating in this particular society *is* a large part of what's making people unhappy. But it's also not useful or remotely reasonable advice.

"Don't be online" is like telling someone "go be a hermit in the woods", and shouldn't be taken seriously.

@kagan @mekkaokereke As a hermit in the woods, I take this very seriously.