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I’ve been confused at why people keep saying that H-1B workers are low wage workers, because that hasn’t been my experience, but the reality is people are talking about the two extremes of the program and not knowing about the other side of it.
1. Outsourcing companies take maybe 4 out of 10 H-1B visas. These cos negotiate onshore outsourcing to companies. They send lower paid workers here and churn through them. Most people think only of this scenario.
2. The rest of the H-1B visas are largely people working tech or finance jobs at all kinds of companies. Not always big tech, but big tech are the most likely to sponsor. In my experience, they’re the only ones who don’t even ask your immigration status until they’re sure you’re the right person for the job. Then if you happen to need immigration help, they’ll provide it.
There’s a lot of FUD about this and most people don’t understand what it means. A lot of H-1B salary info is publicly available online. The posted wages are not the max wages, they mean ‘Meta got this visa for this person with this job title and they’ll be paid at least $150K’ or whatever. It doesn’t matter if it’s 200K or 400, they have to meet the prevailing wage.
These are not the wage slaves you’re talking about. Other aspects of it are not great, but the wage part (at least in SF) isn’t.
There is ongoing work to try to reduce the ability of outsourcing companies to get the no of visas they do. The recent H-1B rule, for example. They’re trying to make distinctions between the 2 groups. The first group do get suppressed wages, and don’t tend to go on to become permanent residents or citizens, as they’re treated so poorly.
The latter group really do tend to be exceptional technical talent.
For many international students who want to stay on in the U.S., the H-1B is also the only program (after OPT) available to most people unless they’re from Canada, Australia, Singapore and Chile. Those countries have their own ‘special visas’. This is the only ‘skilled worker’ visa available for most people. There is a 1 in 4 chance of getting it, even if you get the job offer. The requirements are arduous. Candidates and employers don’t take this lightly.
When companies plan to hire a H-1B, they have to post a document in the office. It says ‘we plan to hire this person. This is their name. This is the job title. We plan to pay them $X. Any objections, contact DOL.’
They do this with every single H-1B. Only after a period of posting, can they advance to the next step. People keep acting as if all of this is some dark surprise, but they just truly don’t understand immigration processes.
So it doesn’t matter if you’re a Swedish software engineer or an Indian backend engineer. The H-1B is the category that most people come on.
I think many people in their heads have only Indian software engineers as H-1Bs, but it’s much more diverse than that. There are also researchers and scientists. You need a bachelor’s degree, and the jobs that hire for that require a bachelor’s degree, with limited exceptions.
More experienced people can probably come on other visas, like O-1s and EB-1s or 2s, but restricting the H-1B also severely restricts the international talent that is already here and graduating from U.S. universities that then wants to stay on after their OPT.
Many countries have started to make it difficult for foreign students to stay on after graduating from their schools. I think doing the same here will be a big mistake.
I know some people here who keep spreading the rumor that H-1Bs are low wage workers wont be swayed even if they see this: https://h1bapp.com/h1b-sponsors/apple-inc (you can search any company)
But then I also feel they’ll say well those foreigners shouldn’t be paid so much
So I’ll just keep saying, you all don’t know anything about immigration
Also deeply skeptical about anyone saying they were personally pushed out so a H-1B can replace them. I know people are mad at the layoffs, but H-1Bs also get laid off, and they pretty much have to leave.
‘I was in the industry and I saw first hand how I, a white American, am discriminated against!’ just doesn’t hold up, sorry. You sound like the ‘I didn’t get a job because.. DEI!!’ people. Sorry the industry sucks now. It sucks for everyone.
@skinnylatte was it... a) a lack of worker protections following decades of union suppression, or b) those dang immigrants.
Gosh it's a tricky one.
@dotstdy @skinnylatte that post works on this side of the pond too sadly
@skinnylatte Thank you for sharing your perspective on this, it's enlightening as usual 
Honestly I feel if H1B were restricted to white Europeans nobody would be talking about it.
@skinnylatte as someone who spent 40 years in the industry, I can confirm this. In the early days of H1-b use for software developers we did see people being hired for lower wages because they were unaware of the cost of living differences; but that had ended by around 2000.
@skinnylatte hey thanks for the overview. I knew most of that having gone through the process 20 years ago but at this point I wasn’t really sure how much things had changed since. Not a whole lot it seems.
@skinnylatte
Also, those visa holders don’t hire themselves or run the company. It’s country nationals making the decision to hire and fire.
Why not hold the employers accountable for their decisions rather than people who make up a metric e.g. hold a specific type of work visa?
@skinnylatte
Can confirm: tech industry layoffs don't spare H-1B workers
@skinnylatte One of my liberal tech friends is capital U upset Trump supported H1B’s. He said that, while he has nothing against the workers, it was messed up that the companies would “treat them like slaves” and not spend that money on American workers. I told him he was being a median Fox News boomer for this take and he got very mad at me.
@drew so many of these people here now. I read some ‘liberals’ saying they should call ICE on H1Bs for taking American jobs.
@skinnylatte Hadn’t seen that. Yikes. Probably the same folks who think DEI is outmoted.
@skinnylatte yeah, and at least for the Australian visa it's just a separate pool for h1-b, so you're more likely to proceed due to applicants / slot, but I don't think it's fundamentally any different other than that. Also the degree thing is why I never even considered it really. The us immigration equivalent of a bachelor degree is 12 years of industry experience iirc, which is rather clowny if you're a young person without a degree. On that front it's vastly easier to go anywhere in Europe.
@skinnylatte yup. Didn’t get picked in 2024, will have to leave the country in 2026 if I don’t get picked, and I have a masters and a PhD from an American university.
@skinnylatte
Yes, I think your observations are right.Also there is something called an H1B cap-exempt visa, which is not subject to the lottery, particularly for individuals employed by or affiliated with a non-profit organization, government research institution, or academic institution. I recall my brother-in-law, an interventional cardiologist, qualifying for such a visa many years ago. To my knowledge, he received an excellent salary during his appointment
@skinnylatte so basically you have to read banns for a visa
@venite what’s a bann?
Marriage notice given at a church to inform community of intended nuptials in case there are... objections
@skinnylatte Interesting read!
This also reminds me of the german crybabies. They all Do not know that for certain visas companies have to prove and document that no other suitable german candidate Was available. So Yeah lots of burning tires to jump for everyone hanging in Immigration processes.
@skinnylatte
I have never once seen such a notice in several decades working in tech, including a few years managing someone on an H1B. HR handled the paperwork as a mysterious black box. I'm sure it was posted _somewhere_ if it that is required, but it does not appear to be an effective requirement.
In contrast, I've seen the required posters about federal and state hourly wages (etc) every place I've worked. So both the laws and my employers know how to get things seen when they really want to.
@dveditz @skinnylatte I've seen them posted (I think in an office where both @dveditz and I worked), though the ones I saw never had people's names. They did have job title and salary, though, which sometimes made it obvious who it was.
I guess after I realized what they were I usually avoided looking at them because it seemed a bit nosy, though sometimes I was curious about the salaries since it was one of the few sources of salary comparison data.
@skinnylatte
Hmmm, I didn't know this. What if the company is mostly or completely remote? I worked somewhere with a woman on H1B once and no one knew she was that status until she was about to be fired (which she was). Her boss stretched her time with the company a little longer to see if she could find a new job, but of course H1B status makes it a huge slog!
@camille during covid they asked for screenshots of posts on public slack channels
Now they def still ask for office posting. Given that H1Bs are tied to specific locations and states (you have to provide an office address for inspections) they’ll ask you to post it at the coworking space or whatever.
@skinnylatte even many Canadians get H-1B; there is something to do with TN and the path to a green card which seems to be easier with H-1B first. I think Canadians are still subject to the H-1B cap but can wait indefinitely in TN.