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@seachanger @Gargron @kristinHenry currently there is no forum for discussing features of fediverse software outside of the individual codebases for each type of server (mastodon, misskey, gotosocial, etc). this means a proposed feature needs to find a server codebase willing to implement it for them, then individually shop around to other server codebases until it gets enough presence that mastodon dot social is eventually pressured to implement the feature, and it becomes "standard". this allows eugen and (to a lesser extent) other developers to exert a form of soft power by forcing discussions about functionality to be tied to their ideas about implementation complexity.

@hipsterelectron @seachanger @Gargron
It's difficult to request specific features, when the problems need more holistic analysis...to step back, acknowledge a problem, and collaborate on ideas for improving safety.

Telling people to 'report', is all fine and good when there is just one bad interaction a month, at most. But for folks that are constantly attacked, that just doesn't work at all.

I don't know what specific features to engineer, but I know we need them. Desperately.

@kristinHenry @hipsterelectron @seachanger @Gargron I think what makes it difficult to move this conversation forward is that there are no simple solutions for this problem, or we'd already have them. On the bright side, relevant work is going on in many different places:

* Mastodon 4.3's improved notification filters are in part a reaction to this problem
* @iftas working on a dependable framework for server block coordination: connect.iftas.org/library/ifta

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IFTAS ConnectFediCheck - IFTAS ConnectDenylist Management by IFTAS Overview FediCheck is a Web service from IFTAS that allows service providers to review and subscribe to external sources such as the IFTAS CARIAD…

@kristinHenry @hipsterelectron @seachanger @Gargron

* @thisismissem working on intra- and inter-server moderation tools: hachyderm.io/@thisismissem/113
* Fediseer as a tool for instance reputation management - fediseer.com

Commercial social networks have trained us into a sort of "yell at the air and hope the corpo listens" approach to effecting change, but many of these efforts can be supported through advocacy, volunteer work, or donations, for those in a position to be able to.

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fediseer.comFediseer
Emelia 👸🏻

@julian @kristinHenry @hipsterelectron @seachanger @Gargron I've actually like half a dozen pull requests open all attempting to improve the moderation tools (fixing gaps, stuff that's confusing, improving things, etc)

github.com/mastodon/mastodon/p

I'm hoping the team can start reviewing them soon, the one Julian linked to was for report forwarding by moderators, which still has a bunch left to do, but is making progress

GitHubPull requests · mastodon/mastodonYour self-hosted, globally interconnected microblogging community - Pull requests · mastodon/mastodon

@thisismissem @julian @hipsterelectron @seachanger @Gargron

One feature, that could be easy-ish to implement, but be a huge help for moderation teams:

Add a new level/role that's basically a pre-admin, where the role has all the basic moderator access to tools with a single addition: allow this moderator to do server level Limits but not any other admin tools or responsibility or confusion.

@kristinHenry @thisismissem @julian @hipsterelectron @seachanger Administration -> Roles -> Add role -> Tick "Manage Federation" and no other permissions.

@Gargron @thisismissem @julian @hipsterelectron @seachanger OK, I just looked at that workflow, and it looks like the "Manage Federation" option allows for Suspending in addition to Limit an instance.

The ability to add a role to be able to just Limit but not Suspend any servers, would be helpful

@Gargron @thisismissem @julian @hipsterelectron @seachanger

So, if "Manage Federation" permission could be more granular, and seperated into "Manage Federation Limits" and "Manage Federation Suspensions", that would be very helpful.

Then moderators can help with waves, but without the fear of accidentally Suspending an instance. Lots of moderators are happy to help with Limits, but don't want to mess with the Suspensions.

@kristinHenry @Gargron @julian @hipsterelectron @seachanger

There's not really a way you can do the authorization policy that varies based on the record that it will possibly create, afaik.

At least, it doesn't seem to be a common pattern.

@kristinHenry @Gargron @julian @hipsterelectron @seachanger but also, there's a big warning page if you try to defederate (suspend) an instance and you've relationships with that instance, so at that point your moderator would know “oh, I shouldn't proceed, I need to go back”

@thisismissem @Gargron @julian @hipsterelectron @seachanger
I can see how that might not be a common pattern, yet.

But I bet a lot more mods would be willing to accept permission to Limit and help out with waves, without risk in any way, of Suspending. No matter how big the warning is.

You have personally done so much work to make the tools so much better, and I super appreciate it!

@thisismissem @Gargron @julian @hipsterelectron @seachanger

From a real-people dealing with waves of spam and racist attacks, being able to just Limit an instance until the Admin(s) wake up, is a big human feature.

I'm wearing my 'human care-taking a community' hat here, and not my 'engineer' hat.

@kristinHenry @Gargron @julian @hipsterelectron @seachanger I mean, it's not a common pattern in the library that powers the authorization logic for who can do what (it's called Pundit).

Unless we did something that didn't allow full management of DomainBlocks, and just created a “limit” record, but that’d come with some tradeoffs

@Gargron @thisismissem @julian @hipsterelectron @seachanger

This is what the current interface in web looks like for changing roles.

If it's possible to change this interface, to make it obvious how to add that ability, that would be a big help.

@thisismissem @julian @hipsterelectron @seachanger @Gargron

If we'd had this when I was in the hospital for cancer surgery, my whole team would have been less stressed.

By being able to Limit, and only Limit, servers, a super-mod could deal with waves of spammers.